Ancestors of Janet Hislop - Duncan, Carss and Veitch

Alison Duncan married into the Dalgleish family in 1757 - her family are my ancestors via Pat Nidd, Mary Latto, Janet Hislop, Jane Dalgleish:

George Carss married Jane/Jean Veitch

William Carss (8 July 1706, chr. 26 July 1706, Liberton, Midlothian)

John Carss (24 May 1710, chr. 28 May 1710, Liberton, Midlothian)

Eupham Carss (5 May 1713, chr. 10 May 1713, Liberton, Midlothian)

Alison/e Carss (16 November 1715, chr. 20 November 1715, Liberton, Midlothian)

Jane Carss (20 April 1718, chr. 25 April 1718, Liberton, Midlothian)

Marrion Carse/Carss (28 July 1704, chr. 30 July 1704, Liberton, Midlothian) married William Duncan on 21 April 1727 at Liberton, Midlothian

Alison Duncan (30 June 1730, Liberton, Midlothian) married Robert Dalgleish on 29 July 1757 at Lasswade, Midlothian - see their descendants here.

George Duncan (28 November 1732, Liberton, Midlothian)

Sarah Duncan (7 March 1736, Liberton, Midlothian)

John Duncan (23 January 1739, Liberton, Midlothian)

James Duncan (27 April 1750, Liberton, Midlothian)

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As usual, I've love more concrete information about these people, if anyone can assist!

Dalgleish family tree

The following is the furtherest back I have managed to get with the Dalgleish branch of the family, forebears of mine, on my Grandfather, Pat Nidd's Grandmother, Janet Hislop's side of the family. Given the numbers involved, I have separated them into family groups as much as possible, and have bolded my direct line:

Robert Dalgleish/Dalglish married Elspeth Oliphant on 7 June 1726 at Dalkeith, Midlothian - there are two children recorded of this marriage:

1. Janet Dalgleish (15 February 1735, chr. 2 March 1735, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

2. Robert Dalgleish (3 May 1727, chr. 14 May 1727, Dalkeith, Midlothian) married Alison Duncan (30 June 1730, Liberton, Midlothian) on 29 July 1757 at Lasswade, Midlothian. There are four children recorded from this marriage:

1. Marrion Dalgleish (3 November 1758, Liberton, Midlothian)

2. Elizabeth Dalgleish (14 January 1764, chr. 20 January 1764, Lasswade, Midlothian)

3. Dundas Dalgleish (9 September 1768, Lasswade, Midlothian)

4. David Dalgleish (20 January 1762, chr. 24 January 1762, Lasswade, Midlothian) married Helen Dalgleish on 28 July 1786 at Dalkeith, Midlothian. There were eight children recorded of this marriage:

1. David Dalgleish (24 September 1787, chr. 30 September 1787, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

2. Robert Dalgleish (1 January 1789, chr. 11 January 1789, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

3. Margaret Dalgleish (21 June 1790, chr. 27 June 1790, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

4. Euphen Dalgleish (12 February 1792, chr. 25 February 1792, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

5. Helen Dalgleish (23 December 1793, chr. 5 January 1794, Dalkeith, Midlothian)

6. Ellison Dalgleish (14 December 1796, Glasgow, Lanark)

7. James Dalgleish (15 May 1799, chr. 2 June 1799, Lasswade, Midlothian)

8. Robert Dalgleish (21 September 1801, chr. 4 October 1801, Lasswade, Midlothian) was a labourer married Jean/Jane Hastings/Hasten. They went on to have eight children.

1. Jane/Jean Dalgleish (20 January 1826, Lasswade, Midlothian) married Robert Hislop (1825, Gortonloanhead) on 12 June 1855 at Bonnyrigg, Cockpen. Six children are listed:

Robert Hislop (November 1855)

John Hislop (19 January 1857, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Joseph Hislop (22 October 1858, Cockpen, Midlothian - 11 January 1914)

Jane Hislop (26 March 1860)

Janet Hislop (2 November 1861 - 1922)

Euphemia Hislop (26 December 1862)

2. Alison Dalgleish (27 October 1827, chr. 4 November 1827, Cockpen, Midlothian) married Daniel Mackay on 26 June 1855, Cockpen, Midlothian. Eight children are listed:

Jane Carline Mackay (27 July 1856, Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh)

Alison Mackay (1 November 1857, Haddington, East Lothian)

Hugh Mackay (26 October 1860, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Sarah Georgina Mackay (3 January 1863, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Euphemia Mackay (26 May 1866, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Daniel Mackay (27 March 1868, Cockpen, Midlothian

Jane Tait Fowlis Mackay (19 July 1869, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Annie Mackay (20 August 1871, Cockpen, Midlothian)

3. Helen Dalgleish (19 August 1829, chr. 20 September 1829, Cockpen, Midlothian). Doesn't appeared to have married or had children.

4. David Dalgleish (9 March 1831, chr. 3 April 1831, Cockpen, Midlothian) married Christina Stewart on 8 February 1861 at Cockpen, Midlothian). Six children listed:

Robert Dalgleish (24 March 1861, Cockpen, Midlothian)

John Dalgleish (14 May 1863, Cockpen, Midlothian)

David Dalgleish (18 February 1866, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Thomas Dalgleish (3 October 1868, Cockpen, Midlothian)

James Dalgleish (27 December 1870, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Christina Dalgleish (23 May 1873, Cockpen, Midlothian)

5. Thomas Dalgleish (29 September 1833, chr. 27 October 1833, Cockpen, Midlothian) married Jane Wilkie on 31 December 1860, Cockpen, Midlothian. Three children listed:

Elizabeth Dalgleish/Wilkie (14 April 1859, Cockpen, Midlothian). Elizabeth was born prior to her parents' marriage.

Robert Dagleish (16 March 1861, Cockpen, Midlothian). Jane Wilkie would have been pregnant with Robert at the time of her marriage to Thomas.

Jane Dalgleish (5 February 1863, Cockpen, Midlothian)

6. James Dalgleish (25 March 1836, chr. 24 April 1836, Cockpen, Midlothian) married Janet Johnson on 28 May 1857, Lasswade, Midlothian. Seven children listed:

Robert Dalgleish (11 June 1857, Cockpen, Midlothian)

William Dalgleish (22 March 1859, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Mary Dalgleish (5 June 1861, Cockpen, Midlothian)

James Dalgleish (1 October 1863, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Janet Dalgleish (5 July 1865, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Jane Dalgleish (9 January 1869, Cockpen, Midlothian)

Thomas Dalgleish (25 July 1870, Cockpen, Midlothian))

7. Robert Dalgleish (14 March 1839, chr. 5 May 1839, Cockpen, Midlothian) married 9 July 1861 at Edinburgh. Doesn't appear to have married or had children.

8. Margaret Dalgleish (24 October 1841, chr. 19 December 1841, Cockpen, Midlothian). Doesn't appear to have married or had children.

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I'd really love more information to be able to flesh these characters out into real people rather than simply a collection of names and dates. Any help would be much appreciated! :)

Bertram Family of Scotland

Alister's Great Great Grandfather James Bertram hailed from Scotland, where the family lived in the Midlothian area for generations. The surname seems to have been spelled either Bertram or Bartram, with some taking the latter name, and Alister's branch, favouring the former.

William Bertram's line was quite possibly as follows:

Alexander Bartram/Bertram (August 1751) married Kathrin/Katrine Lawson - their son was William Bertram (as follows below)

1. Margret Bertram (3 April 1774, chr. 9 April 1774, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

2. Marion Bertram (21 November 1776, chr. 18 November 1776, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

3. William Bertram (11 March 1779, chr. 16 March 1779, Glenholm, Peebleshire) (see below)

4. Helen Bertram (14 October 1781, chr. 21 October 1781, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

5. Stephen Bertram (2 February 1785, chr. 10 February 1785, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

6. Jean Bertram (1 May 1788, chr. 6 May 1788, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

7. James Bertram (7 August 1794, chr. 11 August 1794, Glenholm, Peebleshire)

William Bertram (11 March 1779, chr. 16 March 1779, Glenholm, Peebleshire, Scotland - 23 May 1843, Stobo, Peebles) married Elizabeth Smith (27 April 1777, Biggar, Lanarkshire - 8 January 1855, Gorebridge, Midlothian) (daughter of James Smith (d 3 June 1816) and Elizabeth Grierson (1743 - March 1832)). William was the head gameskeeper at Stobo Castle during his lifetime. Together, William and Elizabeth had the following family:

1. Alexander Bertram (19 August 1800, chr. 25 August 1800, Glenholm, Peebles, Scotland - 12 October 1891) married Margaret Aimers (17 September 1804, Galashiels, Melrose, Selkirkshire - 2 January 1887) on 15 October 1822 at Eddlestone, Peebles. Alex was a bootmaker in the 1840s, but by the 1870s, he was a merchant. Margaret and Alexander had the following children:

1.1 Isabella Bertram (5 September 1823)

1.2 Elizabeth Bertram (25 September 1824)

1.3 John Bertram (13 September, 1829, Eddlestone, Peebles - 4 April 1906, Dundas, Co. Wentworth, Ontario, Canada). For more on this Bertram relative, who emigrated to Canada, please see here for a more complete family tree. For further information see here.

1.4 Robert Bertram (1 January 1830)

1.5 Thomas Bertram (16 December 1832)

1.6 Catherine Bertram (26 May 1834)

2. Margaret Bertram (25 May 1802, chr. 30 May 1802, Glenholm, Peebles, Scotland)

3. Elizabeth Bertram (30 December 1804, chr. 6 January 1805, Glenholm, Peebles, Scotland - 27 August 1869, Innerleithen, Peebles, Scotland)

4. Kathrin Bertram (18 October 1806, Parish of West Linton, Peebles)

5. Jean Bertram (22 April 1808, Glenholm, Peebles - 6 April 1857, New York, New York, USA)

6. Abigail Bertram (1813, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland) married John Rankin at St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian on 12 January 1848

7. William Bertram (3 February 1816, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

8. Stephen Bertram (12 May 1818, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland - 11 March 1875) married Elisabeth/Elizabeth Stoddart (1817) on 22 August 1841 at Traquair, Peebles, Scotland.  They had the following children:

   8.2 William Bertram (29 September 1843, chr. 19 November 1843, Peebles)

   8.1 Elisabeth Bertram (5 February 1842, chr. 25 February 1842, Traquair, Peebles) married George Brown at Edinburgh, Midlothian on 21 March 1862. Prior to George's death, just eleven years later, Elizabeth and George had the following children:

8.1.1 Robert Brown (3 February 1863, Cockpen, Midlothian)

8,1,2 Elizabeth Brown (5 March 1864, Cockpen, Midlothian)

8.1.3 Steven/Stephen Brown (23 March 1865, Cockpen, Midlothian - 5 June 1936, East Palestine, Columbiana, Ohio). Stephen emigrated with his mother and siblings to the US around 1878. He married Mary, who predeceased him. He was buried at the Clinton Cemetery, Columbiana on 7 June 1936.

8.1.4 James Brown (30 November 1866, Newbattle, Midlothian)

8.1.5 Agnes Brown (24 March 1868, Newbattle, Midlothian)

8.1.6 Catherine Brown (28 September 1869, Newbattle, Midlothian)

8.1.7 Robert Brown (15 July 1871, Newbattle, Midlothian)

8.1.8 Georgina Brown (24 January 1873, Newbattle, Midlothian)

Apparently, following her emigration to the US, Elizabeth married John Young.

9. James Bertram (chr. 3 October 1811, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland - 6 January 1848) married Mary Munro on 28 December 1834 at Stobo, Peebles, Scotland.  They continued to reside there.  Their surname is recorded as Bertram or Bartram.    Apparently, James worked as a gameskeeper at Stobo Castle.  James and Mary had the following children:

9.1. William Bertram (12 September 1835, christened 1 October 1835, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

9.2. Elisabeth Bertram (19 June 1837, christened 8 July 1837, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

9.3. Catharine Bertram (1 August 1839, christened 1 September 1839, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

9.4. James Munro Bertram (10 May 1841, christened 3 June 1841, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland - 2 May 1883, off the Kapiti coast of New Zealand). This is our James Bertram who emigrated to New Zealand prior to his marriage, in 1862, to Christina Waters. More in depth information about the family is here.

9.5. Mary Bertram (1 December 1842, christened 21 December 1842, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

9.6. Thomas Charles Bertram (1 April 1845, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland)

9.7. Alexander Bertram (4 June 1847, Stobo, Peebles, Scotland) 

I'm interested in any information on the Bertrams of Midlothian/Peebleshire and where their descendants ended up.  

Brownie family

Alister's grandmother, Patricia Transom's maiden name was Brownie.

John Brownie (1849 - 18 September 1933, Dunedin) arrived in New Zealand via Otago on the 10 February 1874 on the ship Atrato. He was listed as being aged 23 and travelled with three other young men - they were all carpenters and were all from "Wigtonsh" (Wigtownshire is one of the southern most counties of Scotland). The other three men were:

John Cumming aged 24

Robert Knowles aged 21

John Knowles aged 24

In 1876 John married Margaret Christie Forsythe (1859 - 2 August 1934, Wellington). John and Margaret were Alister's Great Great Grandparents. Together they had a family of nine children over 22 years:

1. Margaret Brownie (1878 - 1905). Margaret never married and died aged just 37 years of age.

2. John Brownie (1880) married Mary Ellen Barry (daughter of James and Ellen Barry) (1879) in 1905

2.1 Margaret Ellen Brownie (1906 - 1907). Died aged just sixteen months old.

2.2 John Brownie (22 August 1907 - 1988)

3. Richard Brownie (1882 - 1958) married Jessie Cragg (1881 - 1970) in 1910

3.1 Richard Clement Brownie (13 April 1911 - 2000)

4. Isabella Brownie (1884 - 12 August 1960, Wellington) married Matthew Spence (1879 - 27 December 1966, Wellington) in 1903. Isabella and Matthew were both cremated at the Karori Cemetery, Wellington

5. William Lawson Brownie (1886 - 9 January 1907). Died aged 20, with name William "Cameron" Brownie.  William's death was quite tragic, and followed an unhappy exchange with his father as reported in the Otago Witness on 23 January 1907:

A SAD CASE.

DEATH FROM APPENDICITIS.

An inquest was held on the 10th inst. at the Hospital by Mr C. C. Graham (coroner) and a jury of six, of whom Mr T. Scurr was chosen foreman, concerning the death of William Cameron Brownie, a young man who died in the institution early on Wednesday morning.

Sergeant King appeared for the police, and Mr A. C. Hanlon watched the proceedings on behalf of Mr J.Brownie (senior), the father of deceased.

Charles Young, labourer, at the North-East Valley, said that deceased was a cousin of his, and he identified the body.

Witness also knew the father of deceased, John Brownie. He saw the two together on the night of the 2nd inst. on the footpath at the Upper North-East Valley. A little brother of deceased's, Charles Brownie, was also there. The boy was crying and the father was trying to pacify him. Witness went up to Mr Brownie and told him the boy Charles and a little brother of witness's who was also present, were in his charge, and that they were all right. Deceased had not at that time come on the scene, but appeared soon afterwards. When deceased came up the father said he was going to take the boy Charles to the police, as he was neglected.

The Coroner: Mr Brownie is, I understand, separated from his wife, who has charge of the boy.

Mr Hanlon: Mr Brownie came up and found the child crying and said he would take it to the police.

Witness, continuing, said the time when this occurred would be about half-past nine. The boy did not want to go with his father, but wanted to go home to his mother. He started calling out for his brother (deceased), who came forward to take him by the hand. The father told deceased to let go, but he did not do so, and Brownie (senior) struck deceased on the shoulder with his fist. Deceased then struck back, and. several blows passed between the two. The fight lasted for about two minutes. Witness told deceased he had better get out of it, as people were coming down the footpath, and he ran away towards home. Brownie (senior) went into the middle of the road, picked up some metal, and ran after deceased. Witness saw no more of the affair.

To Sergeant King: Brownie struck deceased about the body, but witness could not say what part it was he struck. Could not say how many blows he struck. In conversation with deceased three quarters of an hour after the row, witness asked if Mr Brownie struck him in the face, and he replied no. He said the only blow he felt was the first one on his shoulder. There was nothing said about dumbbells.

Mr Hanlon: Deceased wae in the habit of using dumbbells, and told witness they were about 65 lbs in weight each. Witness corrected himself and said it was a bar-bell, and it weighed 65 lbs. Deceased told him he had had an accident with it on the Sunday, one of the balls coming off. This did not strike him, but the other ball, being without balance, came down and gave him a wrench. Deceased was a strong, active young man, and was more than a match for his father. He had the better of the row with his father. Noticed afterwards that the father had his face marked. Would not swear deceased received more than the one blow on the shoulder.

To Sergeant King: Both father and son were quite sober.

Dr Falconer, senior house surgeon at the Hospital, deposed that deceased was admitted to the Hospital on the evening of the 7th January, between 6.30 and 7 o'clock. He was complaining of great pain in the abdomen. He was examined by witness, and was found to be suffering from general peritonitis, the result of gangrenous appendicitis. Witness telephoned for Dr Stanley Batchelor, who at once came and operated on deceased. The abdomen was found to contain several pints of pus, and the appendix was in a state of gangrene. The case was practically hopeless from the first, and deceased died at 4 a.m. on the 9th inst., the cause ofdeath being gangrenous appendicitis. On admission deceased stated that the pain in the abdomen had come on on Thursday, January 3, about 2 or 3 p.m., and continued up to the time he was admitted to the Hospital. He also stated that he was of the opinion the pain was caused either by a blow he had received on the left side of the chest and lower ribs between 9 and 10 p.m. the evening before the 3rd, or that the pain was caused by a wrench he had received while exercising with a barbell, which had slipped and given him a wrench. He thought the wrench from the barbell was the more likely to have caused the trouble. He said it was at 7 p.m. two hours before the row he had - he received the wrench from the barbell. Witness would be disinclined to think either the blow or the strain was the actual cause of what deceased was suffering from. He would not be prepared to say either was the actual or exact cause of the appendicitis seeing how often it occurred without any apparent originating cause. In any case, the strain would be the more likely cause of the trouble. Four cases of appendicitis had come into the Hospital in three days, one being that of young Brownie, and there was no history in connection with any of them.

The Coroner said he did not think it was necessary to call a further witness mentioned by Sergeant King. The cause of death was no doubt acute appendicitis, and the only question for the jury to consider was how it originated, and whether it was caused by the blow received in the row with deceased's father or by the wrench deceased had got while exercising with the barbell, or arose from some extraneous cause. He did not think there was evidence sufficiently reliable to show that the blow caused the trouble, and he thought the only conclusion the jury could oome to was that the cause of death was appendicitis, but that the evidence was not sufficient to show what the exact cause of the appendicitis was. The jury returned a verdict that deceased died of acute appendicitis, but there was not sufficient evidence to show, the origin or cause of the same.

6. Alexander Wright Brownie (1889 - 25 July 1892). Died aged just three years.

7. James Christie Brownie (1894 - 16 June 1941) married Violet Ann Kitto in 1915 (1 February 1897 - 6 February 1991) Both James and Violet are buried at the Aramoho Cemetery in Wanganui. These were Alister's Great Grandparents.

8. Clement Christie Brownie (1896 - 1966) married Gladys Mary Lesley (12 November 1899 - 1998) in 1927. Clement served in WWI.

9. Charles Alexander Brownie (1900 - 1961) married Mary Muir Aitchison in 1927

Following John's death, Margaret seems to have moved to Wellington to live with her daughter Isabella (Mrs M Spence) whose husband obviously worked for the Defence Department in Trentham. Margaret seems to have been cremated at the Karori Cemetery, Wellington, and then these interred with her husband John at the Northern Cemetery in Dunedin. John's address at the time of his death was Melbourne Street, Dunedin and his occupation was listed as "builder."